Spiritual Heroes: Franciscan Spirituality

Living Franciscan: Be Praised, O God, through the Franciscan Spirit

An interview with Rev. Dr. Lawrence Jay

by Dr. Darleen Pryds of the Franciscan School of Theology

 On the first Sunday of the month, we’re asking members of our Rolling Ridge community to share how their spiritual lives were transformed by the great heroes of faith. (Read the series introduction here.)

With this being the weekend of the Feast Day of St. Francis, we thought we'd highlight this conversation with our Rolling Ridge Executive Director and Dr. Darleen Pryds of the Franciscan School of Theology for her series on YouTube, "Living Franciscan." (Watch the full video below.) In this modified transcript and edited AI summary, Larry introduces us to Franciscan spirituality and some of his Franciscan Spiritual Heroes.

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Darleen:

Welcome everybody to Living Franciscan, a series of conversations with people who self-identify as following a Franciscan path of spiritual practice without necessarily being a vowed member of an order or affiliated with a congregation. These are intended to be informal conversations to open up our shared awareness of what it means to be Franciscan in the 21st century. I'm really delighted to welcome Reverend Dr. Lawrence Jay with us today. Larry, please tell us a little bit about yourself and then let's talk about what it means to be Franciscan.

Larry:

Thanks, Darleen. I graduated from the Franciscan School of Theology (FST) in 2010. I’m now serving as Executive Director at Rolling Ridge Retreat and Conference Center in North Andover, MA. I moved from California to New England over eight years ago. A big part of my work is living into my adopted spiritual charism, which I identify as "Franciscan." That connection began during my time at the Franciscan School and has shaped how I live out my faith.

When at FST, Kenan Osborne, a friar and professor at the school, once called me a “Baptiscan”— a Baptist with a Franciscan spirit. That label has stuck and has shaped my ministry ever since. I’m an ordained American Baptist, who graduated from a Catholic seminary, working at a United Methodist facility that’s ecumenical, reaching Protestants, former Catholics, seekers, and those exploring progressive Catholic or Franciscan charism.

Darleen:

That’s a great introduction. I’m curious—did Kenan identify you as having a Franciscan spirit, or did you discover it yourself?

Larry:

It was a combination of both. Before discovering the Franciscan School, I was a pastor in San Francisco. My spirituality and theology were shifting, and for my own spiritual integrity, I felt the need to step away from the evangelical stream I was in. I left the concrete jungle of San Francisco and moved to the redwood forest of Santa Cruz and never looked back. I began working in hospitality at a camp and conference center, which gave me space to reflect and explore for myself what I believed and what it meant to be a follower of Jesus.

During this time, I went on retreat to San Damiano Retreat in Danville. I thought I’d signed up for an Ignatian retreat, but it turned out to be a week long retreat on St. Bonaventure’s Soul’s Journey into God. I had never heard of Bonaventure before. That experience introduced me to Bonaventure and Francis—and I fell in love with Franciscan spirituality especially the Canticle of the Creatures, which resonated deeply with my own experiences in nature.

I had discovered St. John of the Cross while backpacking, but it was Francis and Bonaventure who offered a theology that matched my experience. I realized I was experiencing God in nature, something my evangelical background hadn’t given me language for. The Canticle of the Creatures expressed what I was feeling -- God revealed through Brother Sun, Sister Moon, Sister Mother Earth, a kinship with all creation. That led me to seek theological grounding for those experiences, which I found in the interplay between Francis’s lived spirituality and Bonaventure’s intellectual lens.

I found the Franciscan School and decided to pursue a second master’s in theological studies and eventually a Doctor of Ministry focused on Franciscan eco-spirituality at the American Baptist Seminary of the West.

At FST, I was the only non-Catholic at the school, and Kenan’s “Baptiscan” label reflected how fully I embraced the Franciscan charism. American Baptists and Franciscans share a preaching tradition, though not in the fundamentalist sense, with a welcoming embrace of everyone at the table.

Darleen:

You mentioned the redwoods of Santa Cruz and I also imagine the oak trees at San Damiano. Did those places open you up to Franciscan spirituality?

Larry:

Absolutely. As I began backpacking and spending time outdoors, I sensed God in nature but didn't know how to express it. The Canticle of the Creatures gave voice to what I felt. Francis connected with God through creation, and Bonaventure gave it theological depth. For me, the Franciscan tradition really puts together a spirituality of nature through its understanding of the incarnation.

At the Franciscan School, I remember sitting in Mary Beth Ingram’s class on Christology. She talked about the Trinity as relational with the Father and the Son and the Spirit being the resonance between them. God is relationship not "being." Christ comes as the full incarnation of all that is, and we are invited to enter that Divine Union through the incarnation as we connect with everyone and everything. Christ becomes the incarnation that we continue to live into with the Spirit bringing us into relationship with the Divine Dance. Nature is the first revelation of God, scripture the second, calling us into communion with God through Christ in the Spirit. That trinitarian framework helped me integrate my evolving spirituality seeing God as relationship which we are invited into.

Darleen:

How would you explain Franciscan spirituality to someone new?

Larry:

For me, being Franciscan is multi-layered. It’s an embodied spirituality—connecting with nature but also caring for the poor, immigrants, and marginalized, just as Francis cared for lepers. The Word is made flesh in us so that we can live into the joy that is found in living in this world, fully recognizing that our spirituality is not a ticket to heaven; but living fully in this world, celebrating our connectedness with creation and with everyone and everything.

Darleen:

That's beautiful. From my own living into this tradition, an important aspect of Franciscan spirituality is ongoing conversion. How do you live into that?

Larry:

I see it as a contemplative spirituality, or an evolving or emerging spirituality. Like lectio divina, you revisit something and discover deeper layers. My own journey—from evangelical roots to Franciscan spirituality—is a continuous unfolding. I used to feel ashamed about graduating from a Southern Baptist seminary, but now I embrace that as part of who I am today. Everyone has an emerging and evolving spirituality. That’s true for many people we work with who are former somethings, former evangelicals, former Catholics, people who are simply searching. You don't negate who you are. You bring that into the fullness of who you are so that you can continue to emerge and evolve in how we experience the unitive consciousness with the divine as we live into that cosmic Christ consciousness. We're always emerging and that's the beauty and joy of the journey.

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For me, being Franciscan is multi-layered. It’s an embodied spirituality—connecting with nature but also caring for the poor, immigrants, and marginalized, just as Francis cared for lepers. The Word is made flesh in us so that we can live into the joy that is found in living in this world, fully recognizing that our spirituality is not a ticket to heaven; but living fully in this world, celebrating our connectedness with creation and with everyone and everything.

Darleen:

Now a personal question, how does this affect your life choices?

Larry:

When I graduated from college back in 1988, I was wrestling with what to do. I had a mystical experience that I could never explain but simply lived into. I was meditating and I felt like the heavens opened and there was a call to wait on seminary, get involved with campus ministry, and then "San Francisco something," which I did. This call framed the next few decades.

At the Franciscan School I learned that Francis' understanding of his call to "rebuild my church" evolved. While on pilgrimage in Assisi in 2009, I discovered that my call to "San Francisco something" also was evolving. It no longer was the city of "San Francisco," it was "San Francesco" -- St. Francis. Living into his charism as "San Francesco-something" continues to be part of who I am today.

Darleen:

Is there anything else you’d like to share?

Larry:

I’m grateful that Rolling Ridge allows me to shape programming around Franciscan spirituality to help people find healing. We’re starting a book study on The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr. His work makes Franciscan theology accessible. Books like Everything Belongs and The Divine Dance help people see the incarnation of God in everyone and everything.

We also do a lot of work around spiritual wounds of guilt and distorted views of sin. I think one of the gifts of Franciscan theology and the writings of Richard Rohr is helping reframe sin. Sin is broken connections and relationships. We offer healing and forgiveness as we help people recognize their belovedness. I love the opportunity to help people find grace and to recognize that guilt has no place if we really believe that everyone and everything bears the image of God. We can embrace that and love that in other people, but also love that in ourselves. We don't need to feel guilty or bad. We can find freedom. Franciscan spirituality allows people to see the beauty of their belovedness.

Darleen

Thank you, Larry. This has been deeply enriching.

A NEW CANTICLE OF THE CREATURES

O Gracious, Good and Loving God,
Praise, glory, honor, and every blessing is Yours!

Be praised, Creator, with all your creatures,
Especially Brother Sun,
Who brightens the day and provides us with loving energy,
And like You is beautiful and radiant.
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Be praised, O Beautiful One,
Through Sister Moon and the stars.
In the heavens You made them
Bright, precious, and spectacular.
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Be praised, O Divine Spirit, through Brother Wind,
And for the air, for cloudy and bright days,
And every kind of weather,
Because through these you give sustenance to all of creation.
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Be praised, O River of Life, through Sister Water,
Who is useful and humble, precious and pure.

Be praised, O Initial Fireball, through Brother Fire,
Through whom you light the night,
Because he is dazzling and delightful, full of joy and strength.

Be praised, O Wondrous One, through our Sister Mother Earth,
Who nourishes and sustains all,
Bringing forth diverse fruits and many colored flowers and plants

Be praised, O Compassionate One, for those who pardon by your love,

And suffer illness and grief.
Blessed be those who live in peace.

Be praised, O Deep Mystery, through our Sister Death whom no living being escapes.
All return to humus of Earth and the spirit unites with all others in this great Cosmic Love.
Blessed are those she finds living in God's love for love can do no harm.
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Praise You, O Sacred Truth, whom we call by a diversity of names
as you revel in the diversity of beings on Earth.

― A new translation of St Francis of Assisi's Canticle by Larry Jay

Click the link above to watch the full conversation of Living Franciscan with Executive Director, Larry Jay and Dr. Darleen Pryds of the Franciscan School of Theology